Guys, as you know, I give advice here at the site and sometimes I even publish the Q & A as ‘Dear Lisa’. Is my advice always good? I hope so! However, I get all kinds of people writing me with questions and dare I say PROBLEMS.
So, this woman contacted me a month or so ago. I read through her long email. I gave it considerable thought before responding, of course.
Here’s the thing: Her question haunts me.
I must make clear, I’m not a professional but I’m an expert. An expert is someone with EXperience.
That’s me.
So, this woman was writing to me about her sister. Her sister was divorcing a narcissist. Was he a narcissist? I don’t know that for sure but I take her word for it.
She was worried about the safety of the children. The father had recently been awarded his parental rights without any supervision. First, she explained that her sister had suffered abuse by this man. The children had not.
I believe in father’s rights. Children need both parents in their life. They really do! With that in mind I proceeded to give this advice:
“Focus your concern on your sister and her children. Love your niece and nephew, LOVE your sister and help her now with whatever she needs. Buying groceries, babysitting, giving her a hug, helping her with her expenses that now no doubt, are beyond her capabilities. As for the husband? You have no control over him or what he does. So, why focus your attention on something or someone you cannot change or help? What you can help with is making your sister’s life easier.”
Then I lay awake at night wondering, did I tell her the right thing?
Can a sibling fight a court order on their sister’s behalf? If they’re not the parent then they would have no right to intervene.
An then I wake up to the news…on Christmas day a father had murdered his young daughters. A horrific front page story. The community was ‘pulling together’ for the poor mother etc. There is nothing anyone can do to help this woman now. Am I right? It’s too late! He’s taken her children!
OMG, I can’t take hearing about these stories. It happened close to home too. in Victoria, B.C. a place my Beau and I often visit. Does that make it more real? Maybe. But what came to my mind was did I give bad advice to this woman? Help me here.
I have written, and made a video about Parental Alienation. I have also received many comments of thanks but also plenty of comments from men who are resentful of us mothers. They think we’re all in on a grand conspiracy to keep them from their own children. So wrong. Fathers are equally important. But…oh, God help me for saying children are safe with vengeful fathers…
This murderous father was granted a court order for equal parenting. And with that power he decided to take the children from their mother forever. Apparently he botched his own suicide after the deed. And this is not the first case in the news! It’s not one, isolated incident making all fathers look bad. Nevertheless, I’ve no doubt, his lawyer will try to get him off his crimes by pleading insanity. Bull shit.
Just this morning, after drafting this post, I read in the newspaper that a domestic violence spokes-person is pleading for the judges to undergo educational seminars to better understand domestic violence and the signs of serious risk to women and children. She said that the judge in this case minimized the signs and allegations. And she states that “…domestic violence is the most predictable and preventable type of violence.”
I’m not surprised though that the The Law Society of B.C. (a governing body made up of lawyers that review complaints of professional conduct of practicing lawyers) has responded to the woman’s public plea for action, by defending the judge’s decision saying that she did not minimize the evidence of abuse submitted in the case.
The father threatened to blow up the house. There were other violent outbursts that the wife had endured, even an allegation of inappropriate touching of the eldest daughter. All of this…still he gets his father rights upheld in a court of law!
Excuse me, but when did it become *normal* for fathers to threaten to blow up their house?
I feel this judge has somehow normalized the violent temper of a father. This is unacceptable. Regardless of whether the judge made a poor decision or not, the damage is done, isn’t it?
Could this tragedy have been prevented? OR do we go “pro father” all the way and hope for the best? I felt this true story was a warning…don’t be so quick to believe fathers deserve equal custody.
So, did I give this woman the right advice? OR should I have said, go to court and get those children away from their father now—for he is bound to take them away forever! I lay awake wondering if this woman will suffer that same horrific outcome. It’s me or no one—some men say. And then they prove it.
But then how can we predict these kind of events? While I can’t be certain of anyone’s situation, I also can’t help but parallel events in the news and see them as a warning for all of us.
Know the signs of violence. Know the signs of Alienation which can quickly turn violent. Report anything unusual. Even typing this now sounds trite and unhelpful.
If you are going through a custody battle, please protect yourself. Please remember we can’t predict the future. All we can do is fight for our rights and try to protect our children and sometimes we are unsuccessful. I hope the judges will better understand the complaints of parents who are in danger…because where there’s a mother or a father in danger, there’s also children who are vulnerable.
Do share your thoughts!
Like what you read here? Grab the book A Divorce Companion
Comments are closed.
Design by ThemeShift.
Jane Thrive
February 1, 2018 at 4:48 pmOh hugs hugs and more hugs and love to the world.
Yes, you gave the right advice to the sister.
I’m praying it wasn’t the same case. And even if it was 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 there’s no other advice you could give. The system as it stands reunites children with abusive fathers all the time. This sister could not change that, she can only love her sisters children and her sister with all her heart.
I am praying for this mom out there. so much love to her and my heart is breaking into a million pieces for her.
lisa
February 2, 2018 at 3:11 pmHi Jane, thank you so much for your reply. I’m certain this is not the same case. Still, one never knows how a father prone to violence will act. 🙁 It’s true that the sister can only deal with her own sister and children and nothing about the ex. So, I am feeling better about this advice I gave. As for the case in the news, yes, I’m sending out love her way. It’s just so damn senseless!
Charlotte
January 22, 2018 at 2:56 pmOh, man… Lisa, I am so sorry and I don’t envy your position any. It’s impossible to have the 100% right answers all the time, but I think you did a great job giving impartial advice. I mean, we just never really know, and a lot of this is subjective, and depends on the mental stability of the person in question. How CAN you possibly know a person’s headspace, and whether or not this person would do harm to children? It’s such a hard spot to be in, Lisa, but I hope you’re not beating yourself up over it. I’d just make sure to say something like, “if you have legitimate worries about paternal custody, I would seek professional help”?
I also agree with the person above who said that if it’s still haunting you, maybe it’s good to send a follow-up to see how things are coming along. Thinking of you, sweet friend <3
lisa
January 27, 2018 at 5:00 pmExactly true, Charlotte. All we can do is give the best advice based on the information provided. I often recommend lawyers and/or therapists for further reference.
Thanks for your help, Charlotte. I really appreciate your input.
Tamara
January 22, 2018 at 11:28 amI think you give sound advice with the information you’re given. Of course there are always other factors and truths and lies. I think what happened is extremely rare, but often I worry about the children when the parent is abusive in any way to the other parent.
I think you rock, Lisa! Keep on doing it. The woman is going to do what’s right no matter what, we can hope. It’s not on you.
lisa
January 27, 2018 at 4:58 pmYou’re right Tamara. I’m only given so much information and sometimes before I advise someone I ask them several questions, with the option to not answer them if they don’t want to. I do this because sometimes the stories are full of contradictions 😛 Yes, it really does come down to the children’s best interests.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Tamara!
shanayatales
January 18, 2018 at 6:43 pmOh dear. I can understand why you might have second thoughts on the advice you gave, but trust your gut. Considering the situation, you gave her the best advice you could, what felt right. And at the end of the day, all you can do is your best, and leave the rest to the powers above all of us.
lisa
January 20, 2018 at 9:37 amThat’s a good reminder, Shantala. Thanks for weighing in.
Christine Carter
January 17, 2018 at 8:25 pmOh sweet friend, I absolutely understand why this haunts you. And the pressure you have to give the correct advice is just so overwhelming, I’m sure. The cases of domestic abuse are SO hard to predict and prevent. And yes, the father’s rights must be upheld- BUT my gosh, any husband who is abusive is surely a dangerous man to be around, including allowing him to be with his KIDS.
But- I get it. There is no evidence of this so what can we do?
With the information you received, I think you gave this woman sound advice. If you are really struggling with this, I would reach out to her again and share with her your concerns. Maybe that will put your mind at ease? I’m not sure she has any control over him getting the kids and unsupervised at that- but you can at least speak to this issue of risk and encourage her to do what she feels is right. She might have a better idea of the threat- or just might want to try to protect those kids no matter what.
Praying for your heart to be settling in knowing that you are doing the best you can do and giving the best you can give- and that alone is beautiful and helpful and good. <3
lisa
January 20, 2018 at 9:37 amThank you, Chris. I sure hope so. Yes, that’s a good idea about checking back. It’s so hard though, because once the courts order the custody schedule, the mother would have to appeal (which I told the sister) and it costs more $$ and time. That said, I think if the situation were dire I would scrape my pennies together, start a “go fund me” or something to appeal that decision. Thanks for your valuable advice Chris. So appreciate your perspective.
Bren Lee
January 16, 2018 at 7:34 amOh gosh, Lisa. Please don’t beat yourself up over this one. I think your advice was pretty good, despite not knowing all the variables at hand. You know, as well as I do, people can become desperate and resort to violence. But who would have thought?
Hugs to you, my friend. Your advice has always been good for me. Keep at it.
B
lisa
January 17, 2018 at 2:52 pmThanks, Bren. Yes, normally I don’t worry too much about my advice as it is mostly common sense questions. When it comes to legal issues I always suggest a person contact a lawyer right away to determine their rights. So glad my advice has worked for you, Bren! Now, you’re giving good advice on post divorce empowerment 😀
Donna Merrill
January 15, 2018 at 9:38 amHi Lisa,
I do believe you have given this woman the right advice. If anyone is responsible it is the judge and/or jury when it comes to domestic violence.
I strongly believe that whoever makes these decisions must be trained in domestic violence because most cases of violence comes from the home. Oh dear I can go on and on about this because I was a “victim” of this and now “victor” I have even volunteered in shelters for women.
Unless the laws are changed, there is not much we can do. We all have to be pro-active when it comes to this and get involved with law makers.
-Donna
lisa
January 17, 2018 at 2:50 pmThank you, Donna. I’m sorry you were a victim of domestic violence but I’m relieved you are now a ‘victor’. I agree there needs to be some changes and like this advocate suggested, judges could be better educated on domestic violence issues. Thanks for sharing, Donna!
Marie Kléber
January 15, 2018 at 2:48 amShe asked for an advice and you gave it to her Lisa. You just know what she was sharing with you. And it’s just your advice, she can then ask other people or make contact with profesionnals. You did your best Lisa.
I agree with Kim. A man who is violent with the mother of his kids is violent with them . It is something people don’t understand most of the time. And judges are trying their best to give the same chances to fathers and mothers.
When there is violence, we always should care about the kids. There is danger, even if the kids never got abused during the mariage.
When I got divorced, I asked for my son to see his dad under supervision…His security was my priority.
Take care Lisa and thanks for sharing. Laws need to integrate the many issues of Domestic Violence. It does not end with the divorce. It can me even more dramatic after it.
lisa
January 17, 2018 at 2:48 pmThank you, Marie. I often tell people to contact a lawyer for advice b/c it doesn’t get better than that. Laws are different everywhere too. Yes, it’s a real dilemma between father’s rights and risk of violence. Not sure anyone predicts correctly. One thing that’s been made clear here in the comments is that abuse of the mother is abuse of the children. I completely agree with that philosophy. You were wise to get supervised visits ordered, Marie. Not every mother succeeds in that quest unfortunately. You’re right that it becomes more dramatic after the separation.
My Inner Chick
January 13, 2018 at 1:14 pm–Hi, Lisa,
He abuses his children when he abuses their mother. Period.
The laws are too lenient and soft.
As far as I know, Mike did not abuse Kay’s children physically, but with his verbal abuse of her every. single. day.
….Don’t beat yourself up. When women ask for my advice, sometimes I advise them to other resources cuz we don’t have all the answers.
Luv u. x from MN.
lisa
January 13, 2018 at 3:22 pmYES. Absolutely the truth, Kim. Verbal abuse is equally devastating. I also do recommend other places, people, books etc to people. In this case it was hard because the sister had already gone through the legal process and so her only choice would be to appeal (which I told her) but most cannot afford it in time or money 🙁 Thanks for sharing your experience here. As always I value your thoughts! xoxo
Marcia @ Menopausal Mother
January 12, 2018 at 4:44 pmWe definitely need stricter laws when it comes to domestic abuse—-it seems to be on the rise, and so often the victims’ rights are overlooked. No matter how you responded to the woman’s question, in the end, she will do what she feels is best.
lisa
January 12, 2018 at 6:03 pmYes, I think there’s a general cry out from parents (especially women) who have left abusive husbands who are then awarded shared custody. I think the courts are working hard to better handle these custody cases. Yes, she will do what’s best…hopefully her family’s support is getting her through the transition.
Shybiker
January 12, 2018 at 2:08 pmYour advice was sound. Violence against a parent’s own children is very rare and the responsibility for preventing it is not a siblings. The legal system is designed to address these situations.
lisa
January 12, 2018 at 6:02 pmYes, the legal system is designed to deal with it but sadly, often fails. And you’re right in that a sibling has no authority to deal with a legal situation unless they’re the legal guardian of the children. Thanks for weighing in, Shybiker.
Kimberly
January 12, 2018 at 8:32 amOh this is such a tricky, tricky, tricky….I think I read this story online if this is the same case and I just couldn’t bare it. I think that you are right in that you need to know the signs of violence – and I immediately thought of Kim who writes the blog My Inner Chick who is incredibly vocal of abuse. Her sister was murdered by her husband.
Her son went on to be a successful doctor. But she talks about all those signs.
You giving the advice – I mean, you’ll never know what is going on truly in that home/situation. So tricky.
lisa
January 12, 2018 at 5:59 pmTricky, indeed. That case was only one of several that I’ve heard about in recent years. Absolutely tragic. Preventable? I can’t say. In fact, I did talk with Kim about this particular query. I wanted to know what her sister’s murderer was like with the children, growing up. Was he abusive? The answer was that he was not except that he was ABSENT. Thanks, Kim for weighing in. I know it’s not a fun topic.
Beth
January 12, 2018 at 7:52 amYou are such a compassionate and caring person and it’s so hard to say what is and isn’t the best advice in this situation. I think you gave good advice, honestly like you said, we can’t predict what will happen. I think there are truly no easy answers. You are a good person.
lisa
January 12, 2018 at 5:56 pmThanks, Beth. I appreciate your support on this. We don’t know the outcome that’s for sure.
Balroop Singh
January 11, 2018 at 7:42 pmLisa, I agree with you…all men are not alike but you can’t trust the ones driven by anger and vengeance. They can go to any extent. Self-protection is imperative in such cases.
Often I say a mother should have a greater right over her children as her contribution has been underestimated for ages. She is the one who bears the child in her womb for nine months, she is the one who suffers, can’t eat properly due to sickness caused by hormonal changes, it is her body that goes through all those changes a man doesn’t even know. Only the wearer knows where the shoe pinches aptly fits her condition. She goes through insomnia, labor pains and sometimes C section, has to feed the child for at least one year and keep her career goals aside. What does a father do? His role starts after the child is born and that too many fathers don’t even care to give 20% attention! Why should they be given equal rights if they can’t respect the mother of his children?
I appreciate your concern and passion that has gone into this post.
lisa
January 12, 2018 at 5:55 pmYou hit the nail on the head, Balroop. If a father cannot respect the mother of his children, how can he parent equally and fairly? Of course, barring problems with the mother—such as addiction or mental illness. And yes, mothers go through the physical process and bond before the child is born. I can’t think of anything crueler in this world then a father depriving the mother of her own children. Thanks for weighing in.